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Machida Lost The Title!

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Started 4 months ago by MarvelKnight4
Latest reply from jcohl

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MarvelKnight4

Heavyweight
Joined: Feb '09
Posts: 1,565

Fu*k that, this fight showed EVERYTHING THAT I ORIGINALLY SAID PERIOD!

I called Shogun winning this fight MONTHS AGO and he indeed won, ~~the judges either got bought off~~ or they are just complete fu*king Idiots. Everyone knows that Machida lost that fight and it was very decisive PERIOD.

I honestly do not know how Machida can live with himself, if he';s such a "samurai" then he would have given the belt to SHogun in front of everyone because he knows in his heart he lost that fight. Shogun gor robbed of his dream and his moment as the guy who truly beat Machida and YES like i said before the whole "machida Era Has BEgun" was waaaayyy too premature and i called it here monthst ago saying that he had to defend his title once which he did not! Now all the Machida Band Wagon fans will NOT support him like i also called and now will hop on SHogun's balls also like i called.

This is the biggest travesty in the history of MMA PERIOD!

When you put stuff like "bought off" you are asking to get blasted. Try to avoid that. - Justin

Posted 4 months ago #
jcohl

Heavyweight
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 2,112

The only thing that makes any sense is that the judges awarded Machida too heavily for his counter-striking and his takedown defense, and awarded Rua too lightly for the beating he threw Machida in 4 of the 5 rounds of the fight...

Posted 4 months ago #
dbiz

Middleweight
Joined: Nov '08
Posts: 151

Ok, here's some free advice that you really should take: Shut up. You're clearly drunk because you aren't making sense. Now that we got that out of the way...

There was nothing decisive in that fight. Maybe in your mind because you "called" Machida's defeat months ago and blah blah blah ZZzzzzz.... We had 4 people at our table tonight. No one called it the same way. So for you to DEFINITIVELY say what happened...well, it doesn't work that way and you know it.

There's a saying that gets bandied about here: To be the champ, you have to beat the champ. No one beat anyone in that fight. It really was a stalemate. The only round that I can think of that was truly decisive was round 3 and that went to Machida, courtesy of the way he beat Shogun around the final 30 seconds. Everything else was a toss-up. ****, that may have won him the fight.

Finally....you're very close to libel. Really? The ONLY explanations are the judges being bought off or being stupid? There's no other explanation? Nothing at all, including a UD against your little golden boy?

I would advise you to tone down the rhetoric, because I can't see Kris shielding what info he has from a subpoena, should an athletic commission or the judges in question decide to come after you.

Act like an adult.

Posted 4 months ago #
MarvelKnight4

Heavyweight
Joined: Feb '09
Posts: 1,565

dbiz,

first off i don't drink, second you and everyoe else knows that Machida lost that fight Period, we could even bring up the Rampage-Griffin fight,

3rd you need to shut the fu*k up because all you do is dis-agree all the time because you got nothing better to do.

Machida lost that fight period, he should have not got the decision, Randy Couture did not finish Tim Sylvia and Forrest Griffin did not finisht Rampage, in this case Shogun won 4 of 5 rounds or maybe even 3 of 5 but he CLEARLY as day won that fight period, anyone who dis-agrees should either watch the fight again or hop off Machida's balls and the Band Wagon and educate themselves more on MMA period.

Posted 4 months ago #
Lex415

Heavyweight
Joined: May '09
Posts: 514

Joe Rogan posted a funny Tweet!

"“joerogandotnet : I actually LOL’ed at this:
RT @alcky: @joerogandotnet :
WELOME TO THE MAcHIDA ERROR!!!"

That's exactly what it was Dbiz, an error.

Do you think Machida won? Even with that exchange in round three? Did you see the end of that exchange when Rua countered him with a right that stopped the exchange? He hurt Rua but wasn't going to finish him in the third.

I understand where your coming from Dbiz but Rua controlled majority of the fight and pressured him throughout.

Posted 4 months ago #
bsbiz

mod
Joined: Nov '08
Posts: 486

What is it that Dana is famous for saying? "Never let a fight go to the judges if you want to be sure of a decision." I had it 48-47 for Rua, but at the same time, if you count defenses higher, Machida could have won. I thought the fight was extremely even. Only one round was clearly won (the third by Machida with his flurry in the last 30 seconds), but other than that, there was very little to nothing separating these two guys. How highly do you score counter-punches as opposed to offensive kicks? How do you score defense to punches? All in all, to be the king you have to beat the king. According to the judges, he didn't and in the end, that's all that matters.

Posted 4 months ago #
jcohl

Heavyweight
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 2,112

A good summary is:
headkicks > legkicks...

Posted 4 months ago #
ufcmanz

Middleweight
Joined: Sep '09
Posts: 245

Marvel cool down....woosah
(if you have no clue what I'm talking about watch Bad Boys 2)

Yes Shogun should have won the fight, but you get to far a head of yourself. Its cool that you called a fight a month ahead of time. As you said tho, you don't believe in the Machida Era and people were getting to far ahead, but you as well do this yourself on other topics. Your saying Shogun won Period like he destroyed Machida.

This fight was very close and I believe the first 2 round were close. 3rd was Machida's. 4th was close. 5th was Shoguns. In the end I thought Shogun had a split decision win. Which if either guy lose's their "robbed". I thought is was bs to hear a unanimous decision ,for either guy (I was a little more surprised it was for Machida ,but Shogun didn't dominate by no means). I even picked Machida, and thought Shogun squeezed it out.

I think this may work out for the better tho for us as fans because I think Shogun vs. Machida 2 will be back very soon. As well Anderson may have some free time after Belfort fight, maybe we'll see Shogun vs Anderson. If Shogun wins the second time around.

Overall it was very technical and very good show from both. It takes 2 fighters to make a fight like that so close and entertaining. As for all the Fans which boo'ed Machida they have little to no respect/classic for the show he put on. Shogun deserved the fans approval ,but so did Machida.

Posted 4 months ago #
jcohl

Heavyweight
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 2,112

I'll admit that my boy mk has a reason to be p!ssed, but it sounds like Dana White is ordering an immediate rematch in the presser, because something has gotten the MMA media a-Twittering...

Posted 4 months ago #
Lex415

Heavyweight
Joined: May '09
Posts: 514

Your right Jchol. There is obvious pressure for a rematch so Dana is probably scrambling right now! Maybe they can headline 108! ;)

Bsbiz, I hear ya, just backing up MK.

Posted 4 months ago #
jcohl

Heavyweight
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 2,112

I have to admit that while I picked Machida to win the fight, I never thought he'd win like this...

Posted 4 months ago #
ufcmanz

Middleweight
Joined: Sep '09
Posts: 245

No big deal Jcohl ,I don't believe anyone saw that coming.

Posted 4 months ago #
Southcakalak

Middleweight
Joined: Dec '08
Posts: 131

i actually really enjoyed that fight, and there was no way that this should be that controversial...while close, nobody definitely kicked the other guys ****...lets just calm down, mark it down as a draw in our minds, and watch the rematch in february

Posted 4 months ago #
Gunslinger

Heavyweight
Joined: Nov '08
Posts: 1,832

There is no doubt that Shogun's leg kicks were extremely effected, but unless you physically crack under them, they're meant for wearing down your opponent more than finishing them. Perhaps the judges value strikes to the head over strikes to the body/legs. It's clear in the fight that Machida's the one who was trying to finish the fight, and believe it or not, he was the one who came closer of the two to doing so, on quite a few occasions.

I'm not saying that Machida should have won, but those of you saying that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY Machida could have won the fight by any means need to open your eyes.

also i feel really bad for shogun because even if he gets a rematch...machida will destroy him the second time around....because machida will now certainly work on a new strategy for when a fighter trys to do this to him......not only has shogun showed a weak hole in machidas game but i believe that shogun now also has made him unstoppable

also again i gotta agre with south because alot of you guys and mma fans are making it sound like this fight was one sided when it absolutly was not it was very close and imo it was the closest fight ive ever tried to score....i had no idea who would win but hinestly you could make a case for either guy winning

Posted 4 months ago #
Lex415

Heavyweight
Joined: May '09
Posts: 514

It wasn't one sided, almost even, but I feel like Shogun edged him and he didn't get fairly recognized for it, (with a belt) I guess throwing head kicks and stuffing take downs scores more points. But really, did Machida throw that many head kicks? I do think that Machida stifled Rua's game because it looked like Rua wanted to take him down. Im not sure if Rua will be able to whip him second time around, but i'll be rooting for him.

RUANIANS!

Posted 4 months ago #
dbiz

Middleweight
Joined: Nov '08
Posts: 151

No need to blast me, anyone. I was simply pointing out (and bsbiz can back me on this) that the fight was so close, I was stunned at a UD. I had a split in my mind, and at 2 rounds a piece and couldn't make up my mind on the deciding round. And anyone bringing up Rampage-Griffin as an example is a fool, since that fight was one-sided for most of it. Machida was never hobbled by Shogun's leg kicks, and no one got a 10-8 round. Drop that comparison because it ain't even close.

My reasoning: Shogun would throw a body kick. Machida would grab the leg and toss a hard right to the jaw. Neither fighter was wobbled in the exchange, so how is that scored? I can't tell you, but I wasn't emotionally invested in the fight.

The rest of that was simply to encourage mk4 to think BEFORE HE SULLIES MMA by calling a fight fixed. That helps no one. And if he keeps doing it at every unpopular decision, I'm going to suggest he be put on moderation until he can stop libeling judges, because that is EXACTLY what it is.

I don't give a sh!t what his opinion is. I never have. I likely never will. But I don't want anyone labeling fights as fixed when they have nothing but personal bias to go on.

Posted 4 months ago #
jazz

Heavyweight
Joined: Mar '09
Posts: 751

DBIZ,

Calm down dude. Whatever your personal vendetta with MK4 is, EVERYONE has a right to their own opinion. You'd be a little surprised at how many people have actually thought that YOU should be moderated and how unfair it is that YOU have never been edited for some of your comments when some us have. The fact that you would "suggest" that anyone should be moderated is hilarious, and a **** move. Also, if you indeed had the power to "suggest" someone be moderated, and were infact granted your wish, then the credibility of this site and those who run it, would be deminished.

Having said that, I, like MK4 and lex called shogun's win and we should have gotten it. Everyone can argue the scoring and "how it was scored" and we can all keep discussing the different things we think the judges chose to score the fight on but the bottom line here is that a blind man saw that shogun clearly won the fight. Wether some of you want to admit it or not, shogun won and controlled the pace the entire fight. For the first time machida wasn't "countering", his lack of offensice attack was him being on DEFENSE.

The fact is that shogun came in with a game plan that NO ONE expected not even machida. He executed perfectly and just owned machida. Machida didn't just lose a round for the first time in the ufc but he lost atleast for. If anyone deserved the ud it was shogun. It's a travesty and worse then when hamill beat bisping but lost the decision. I honestly can't imagine any knowledgable mma fan who can honestly say, holding a bible in their hands that they truly believe that machida won. It's really unbeleivable what happened. For those who record the fights like i do, go to right after the decision was announced and read dana's lips as he said to shogun " you won that fight".

Posted 4 months ago #
bsbiz

mod
Joined: Nov '08
Posts: 486

There is a difference, jazzkok, between being an insensitive, opinionated pr!ck (which dbiz certainly can be) and openly and repeatedly calling into question the PROFESSIONAL INTEGRITY of judges. Professional competence can be debated (and has been incessantly over the last 14-16 hours and will be until these two fight again, but professional integrity is something completely different. Professional integrity affects not just the fight in question, but the legitimacy of an entire sport, and until proof comes out that money changed hands in the judges' favor with respect to this fight, I would respectfully ask everyone to just tone down the rhetoric regarding this decision.

Oh, and that blind man that you were referring to? When he gets on his braille computer and checks braillewikipedia.org, he will indeed find out that Machida is still undefeated, just as he will find out that Matt Hamill still lost to Bisping and all the other truly atrocious decisions still stand as called. Calling someone's professional integrity just because you disagree with a decision is more than uncalled for.

Posted 4 months ago #
jazz

Heavyweight
Joined: Mar '09
Posts: 751

bsbiz,

Much respect dude,

I don't want to get personal or come off as i'm attacking anyone, I just think we should all check ourselves before we threaten eachother and disrespect eachother. It's ridiculous dude. We're all adults and members of this site and are all entitled to our own opinions. If someone has something to say about the integrity of the sport, then so be it dude. That's what these discussions are all about. Everyone thinks brock is a j oke but yet that is tolerated. If someone thinks that the judges f***d up and takes it as far as questioning the credibility of the judges than that's their personal opinion dude no matter how much you disagree.

All the decisions stand as they are but that doesn't mean we can't question them. What else would we be doing on frenzy if not discussing what has happened in mma?

Bisping has 2 losses on his record but imo he should have three and one of them came from hamill no matter what the judges "decided".

IMO Machida has 1 loss on his record no matter what is written or what the judhes decided. But hey dude, that's just my opinion. Whoever thinks machida won, i don't agree, but that their opinion. I'm not going to have the nerve to suggest that that person be moderated because i don't agree. Come on dudes, aren't we all adults here?

Posted 4 months ago #
Lex415

Heavyweight
Joined: May '09
Posts: 514

Bsbiz, are you trying to make Jazz sound stupid with your braillewikipedia remark? (It was kinda funny tho.) Jazz isn't trying to dump on anyone, he's just saying that it's hard to argue that Machida won. Im not trying to persuade anyone with my thoughts on the fight, just saying that after watching the fight, it's hard to swing a solid decision towards Machida's way.

Also, rants about how fights might be fixed need to stop. It's just not happening. (Im not calling you out MK4, im sure that was just frustration.)

Posted 4 months ago #
MarvelKnight4

Heavyweight
Joined: Feb '09
Posts: 1,565

dbiz,

i could care less if you care for my opinion or not, the feeling is more than mutual because i honestly don't give a sh*t about you or your 40 year olf virgin opinion either.

I never b*ch about every even as you suggested rather this one time i was upset with the judges because the decision should have obviously gone to SHogun, you suggesting that i get "moderated" will never happen because unlike what you pointed out, i always give my opinion like everyone else, the only difference between you and i is that you purposely talk sh*t to other members here just to keep your "sad: little rep going, i don't and never will give a Sh*t about you or what your opinion is because there are a lot of other guys here that i can conversate with like a dults not guys like you who have no life and just come on here to talk sh*t and stir sh*it up. You saying that i should be put on "moderation" is a little bi*ch attempt to get me in trouble with Kris and the other mods but i have a decent realation ship with them so you can try all you wan but it's never gonna happen dude.

As far as the fight itsel SHogun won that fight period, he landed more than twice the amount of strikes that Machida did and did more damage and won at least 3 of 5 rounds. I'm all for the notion that the cahmpion has to lose decisively to lose his belt but in this case that is exactly what happened, i never blasts the judges ever and never "bi*ch" about decision but this decision was the worst i've ever seen. Machida himself looked surprised and a bit confused when his name was announced as the winner so what does that say?

"k4 to think BEFORE HE SULLIES MMA"......that;s just your little bi*ch attempt to manipulare the other members here to thinking that i am a "troll" which i am so far from but you on the other hand epitomize what a "troll" is with all your sh*t talk and you subttle attacks towards other memeber comments that you always get away with.

dbix is not important enough to keep carrying this argument with so i'll just ignore his stupidity from now on. He can say what he wants, i won't respond because the dude isn't important for $hit.

Posted 4 months ago #
dbiz

Middleweight
Joined: Nov '08
Posts: 151

All I said is that you are repeatedly libeling the judges. And you are. Plus, you can't spell b*tch. I win either way.

Posted 4 months ago #
bsbiz

mod
Joined: Nov '08
Posts: 486

jazzkok: Criticizing a judge/ref/official's professional competence is one thing. While I don't always like it, it does fall under the category of acceptable. Saying, "I think those judges got that decision horribly wrong" is perfectly fine and that's not what I have a problem with. Comments that fall under the umbrella of what Justin modded out up at the top are the ones that I will blast away at. MK is too good of a poster and too smart a fan of MMA to be posting that kind of crap. I am sincerely disappointed he said it and I'm dismayed as well that he led off his post with that. The rest of what he says has merit, but that part was terrible. That kind of thinking is why I don't venture very far out of the forums.

lex: I only used braillewikipedia.org because jazz himself started referring to blind men being able to see how bad a decision that was. I'm not trying to make anyone look bad intentionally.

MK: I would not be venturing too far out on a limb to say that you and Dbiz don't see eye to eye on things and that you two don't get along. However, he gets just as frustrated as I do about comments about fights being fixed and as I said above, you're too good to be falling back on troll comments like, "The judges got bought off". If you ignore him, he'll go away. As his brother, I can tell you from years of experience it works. Peace?

Posted 4 months ago #
Eldiablo

Heavyweight
Joined: Jan '09
Posts: 554

Whoa fellas. I think Butthead said it best "Settle down, Beavis".

In my humble opinion Shogun was robbed, plain and simple. In a room of 12 dudes, not one piped up that Machida should have won; and there were lots of Machida bandwagoneers. Maybe I was a little sloshed, but I had 4 of the rounds go to Shogun.
At the end of the night, the casuals were calling MMA fixed and the hardcores were hanging their heads in disbelief. For the first time, everyone just sort of left without a grand farewell.

As far as the libel thing, and I'm not condoning discrediting the integrity of MMA, but at least MK put the "they're paid off OR" qualifier there. Clearly a little "heat of the moment" going on there.

Posted 4 months ago #
ufcmanz

Middleweight
Joined: Sep '09
Posts: 245

MK

Its not to often I'll agree with dbiz (I'm don't agreeing with the personal attack tho)
but I found your opinion and statements to be very biest. First you look at the Judges intellgence. Then you make the point of you called this "Months ago", then to compare Machida/Shogun to Forrest/Rampage ,this is your way of overstating your point, cause Forrest destroyed Rampages lead leg with kicks which may have been Shoguns plan but he was not as affective as Forrest was. Its almost like you were watching that fight with a Shogun poster blocking the TV.
I would have more respect if you were making statements like Shogun was throwing good leg kicks, he had octagon control for most of the fight ,was trying for take downs and throwing good over hand rights (Facts). If you had went on to say this is almost like the Jardine vs Liddell fight. The rounds were all close but the leg kicks made the difference. Just try saying something but "Shogun won period" (thats just a statement/opinion) which has nothing to back it up. If your trying to make a point try to keep it more realistic.

Posted 4 months ago #
MarvelKnight4

Heavyweight
Joined: Feb '09
Posts: 1,565

bsbiz,

dude i have a lot of respect for you and appreciate your take on this. I'll go ahead and say that i was wrong at allowing my emotiongs to even consider that the judges were "bought off" but it was pure frustration and i'll admit that because i always owned up to what i say. Everyone here knows that i am not a "troll" and i never intend to be one but i'll just admit that maybe i jumpt the gun a bit too fast on calling out the judges which i still think made an awful call IMO.

bsbiz, even though i don't get along with your bro dibiz, i will no longer personally attack him just out of respect for you because i have nothing against you dude even if he chosses to get smart with me again i'll ignore it because i'm above that kind of stuff.

ufcmanz, dude i will not hide the fact that i was rooting for Shogun because that's been obvious from the beginning but i will dis0agree that i am biast becaue i always give credit where credit is due. And i honestly think that Machida didn't really do anything against Shogun other than once in a while get a punch in and just take those leg kicks, that's where i stand on this whole matter, Shogun IMO should have won that fight regardless of other criteria that apply to Title Fighta and "decisively" beating the Champion and all that stuff. But i get what your saying and i also appreciate your honesty on this.

Posted 4 months ago #
ufcmanz

Middleweight
Joined: Sep '09
Posts: 245

If the UFC were smart they would put the Machida vs Shogun fight on when Fedor vs Rogers was on, I mean what does everyone want to see more Fedor vs Roger or a second look at the Machida vs Shogun fight to watch it very closely. As a MMA fan I believe you could take away a few hardcore fans as well as alot of casuals from that Fedor fight with this tactic.

Posted 4 months ago #
sempeckx2

Welterweight
Joined: Aug '09
Posts: 65

If the judges believe that Machida one that through his effective defense then they should have given neer the decision win for his exceptional defense by getting up every time he got slammed into the canvas.

Posted 4 months ago #
NicKageB

Light Heavyweight
Joined: Sep '09
Posts: 494

To reiterate what everyone is sayin:
1:CLOSE, GREAT fight
2:Rd1-Rua? Rd2-Rua? Rd3-Machida Rd4-Rua Rd5-Rua
3:Age old cliche: Don't leave the fight to the judges

Rua won this fight IMO but I'm not mad. In the rematch I think Rua will come with the same game plan (why not? it was effective. He mite try to get it to the ground a bit more) but obviously Machida knows he has some work to do, so I think he'll come in with an improved game plan and take it (he11 maybe he'll be thinkin about to takin to the ground)

Posted 4 months ago #
ufcmanz

Middleweight
Joined: Sep '09
Posts: 245

Sem

That Tibau fight verus Neer was very close as well. Tibau had 9-10 takedowns/Slams and 1 nice armbar attempt, but on the feet Neer was coming forward and throwing strikes, even on the ground I found Neer did more damage with his elbows. Neer controlled Tibau's position on the ground ,Tibau would slam into side control but Neer would put him in guard or stand up. Octagon Control was kind of even, Tibau had his takedowns / Neer was coming forward. Tibau had round 1,loads of energy even stand up and good takedowns. Neer had round 3, Tibau started to gas and Neer kept coming forward. 2nd round was the closest of the 3 rounds to call, I gave it to Tibau but I wouldn't be surprised if you gave it to Neer. Its wasn't a 30-27 for Tibau tho.

Posted 4 months ago #

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