Greeting from Vegas. The purpose here isn't to rub in the fact that Lesnar beat Mir by destromination (as per my pick), but rather to point out that no matter what Lesnar does in the cage, his haters will always hate him. What do you do when 18000 boo you the f out of the cage? You flip them the double bird. The dude just prove EVERYONE wrong: he's the real deal. Give him his moment. And while he went a little over the top, that's just him. He appologized. If a friend of yours was an a$$ and appologized the next day, you would still be boys. Not here though. Go Lesnar. The only way he'll lose is if they bring in Fedor, and even that's a maybe. By being there, I can't blame Lesnar for hating on the crowd, cause the ALL hated on him.
Lesnar haters will always hate
(23 posts) (9 voices)-
Posted 4 months ago #
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it wasnt a sincere apology diablo, it was a forced bs apology that dana had him do for pr reasons. im over it though, brock will get whats coming to him when carwin faces him and carwin ktfo's brock.
Posted 4 months ago # -
lesnar has yet to face a hw with his size and wrestling yet any of the folllowing could easily beat him.....shane carwin,josh barnett, cain ......or even fedor
fedor- by ko, fedor has more ko power than almost anyone in the hw divsion also he is the #1 hw in the world and always will be unless barnett proves to be difficult...but anyways fedor would ko lesnar or sub lesnar
barnett- has equal wrestling if not better wrestling than lesnar and would take him down and sub him
carwin -is the same size as lesnar ....and he the same wrestling ability and has way better stand up and better ko power.....carwin by ko in the first
cain- is smaller but has spectacular wrestling and i believe cain could tko lesnar or take him to a decsion
Posted 4 months ago # -
I am a Brock fan for MMA and Ability reasons, i was never into that WWE crap and have a non bias view, he is currently the best heavyweight in the premier MMA organisation fact. In reply to Gunslingers comments, ive seen some of the other forum comments you've left and you seem to really dislike Brock, what ever he may have said and done look at his MMA career, forget WEE, forget everything just look at his career, he has beaten the 2 former heavyweight champs in a year, he has elite wrestling and also ever improving strike technique and KO POWER.
Lesnar vs Fedor - I havent a clue, in a octogan i think it would be one **** of a fight and to call it would be tough, Fedor has to be the favourite but i think lesnar has the size and power to cause problems. I think it would go to a decision and a close one at that, either Brock or Fedor could win.
Lesnar vs Barnett - From what i have seen of Barnett he is a big heavyweight but not a strong heavyweight, he does carry a lot of fat on him, Strength i would deffo give to Lesnar and also the wrestling advantage due to his size and strength. To say Barnett would sub Lesnar when a world class top notch submission expert couldnt even get out half gaurd or even ATTEMPT a transition i cant see how, i really cant, especially when he took Gilbert Yvel down and laid on him for 8 minutes over 2 rounds and did nothing, he mounted him, side control back to mount and yet he would "take brock down and submit him" you make it sound easy and a done deal. If he cant submit Yvel how would he submit Lesnar? I see brock TKO Barnett end of round 2/3.
Lesnar vs Carwin - Carwin has the same size as Brock and thus taking away one of his weapons, wrestling ability goes to Lesnar, if they fought a wrestling match Lesnar would win but this is MMA so it is then alot closer. Carwin i would say has the power advantage striking but Brocks movement and agility is better i would say, he is more athletic and has greater cardio from what i have seen. This fight will end in a KO if it happens, or a mounted TKO. If the fight ends in round 1 Carwin has the advantge if it goes past 1 and a half rounds or even 2 i see Lesnar being a big favourite.
Lesnar vs Valesquez - Cain has very good wrestling but to take down someone who would be 40 lbs heavier and as good if not better wrestling ability than him is a long shot in my opinion. He sat on Kongo in dominant positions for 3 WHOLE rounds and has shown he doesnt have the ground and pound power, even Joe Rogan said during the Kongo fight he really needs to work on finishing fights cause he should have easily tko'd Kongo and he will not get into those positions with Lesnar. Lesnar tko round 2.
Every heavyweight mentioned could beat Lesnar at the end of the day, Pat Barry could beat Lesnar in round 1 with a head kick but if you break it down and look non biasly and how the fight would go i see Lesnar having an equal chance in each fight if not being the favourite. As Lesnar would say CAN YOU SEE ME NOW and the answer is yes we all can.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Ladies and Gentleman this is a sport and in sports you get boo'd. That doesn't mean you go flicking off the fans. Derek Jeter doesn't flick of red sox fans cause they boo him at fenway and if he ever did he would get ripped, but because most casual people equate this with the WWE this BS keeps the sport from growing and reaching the mainstream. So yes Brock deserves to get ripped, I have no problem with what he did to Mir that's fine. But keep that between you and your opponent, don't flick off the fans and bad mouth the sponsors.
With that said Carwin is 2 inches taller and actually has bigger hands than Brock, and unlike Brock Carwin has actually KO'd legit HW's standing up. Shanes wrestling is just as good, but has much better standup. And don't buy the hype, Carwin is just as much of an athlete and with a much better camp.
Posted 4 months ago # -
in response to truemmafan....yes i dislike lesnar mainly because he is all drama ever since he got into the ufc he has been none stop drama.....and i had to sit and watch pti talk bad about mma today due to him.....no let it be known that PTI is probably the worst sports show on tv due to the fact that they have no mma knowledge at all but still try to give there own opinions on it.......today i had to here michael wilbon say that the fans shouldnt blame lesnar for acting the way he did because its a violent bloddy sport and thats what there supposes to do and then i had to hear stupid wilbon talk about how all mma is, is a bunch of bad guys fighting bad guys and how there isnt any goods guys in "this violent sport"....and yes they still refer to ufc as a sport...i guess there neighbors down at mmalive havent been noticed yet
anyways to the rest true mmafan.......barnett has great submission skills and i was saying that if barnett landed on top of lesnar that brock would get submitted josh barnett is a better fighter than lesnar and to say he isnt strong is dumb....obvisouly you dont know how hard it is the finish gilbert yvel- hendo, belfort,fujita and many more couldnt do it but barnett did...barnett is an olympic caliber wrestler lesnar is not......lesnar would get destroyed....lesnar has yet to face another wrestler the samme size as him(barnett,carwin) and i suspect when he does he will fall
now onto carwin.....you see your still one of the people who already give lesnar a cardio advantage..with his muscles and the weight he carries around i see it the other way around lesnar will gas faster than most people smaller than him......plus no oone can judge carwin's cardio he hasnt even been to the second round yet...but he trains with greg jackson so im oretty sure his cardio is good from running up high alltitude mountains
cain- could beat lesnar just as easily as lesnar could beat him....cain has great finishing power...the only reeason he couldnt finish kongo was because he was rocked at will whenever kongo got standing.....which leads me to another point if kongo could learn to defend the takedown he would destroy lesnar he's taller and has a larger reach and would be much faster give kongo a full training camp with aka or extreme couture and im telling you he gives brock a fight to remember
and while yes we can all see brock lesnar now...we could always hear his big mouth which will be shut soon
Posted 4 months ago # -
Not that I care for the guy, cause ive never realy had anything great to say about him. But lesnar is a beast. Like you actually think Barnett would "destroy" lesnar? I think truemmafan said it best how all of these guys could beat Lesnar but not likely. I think fedor and Barnett could beat him cause there good all around fighters with tons of experience and proven BJJ. Carwin could easily KO anybody including Brock plus probably stuff some takedowns to. He might even have the best shot because of his size wrestling ability and KO power. You also bring to many ifs into your evaluation of fights. Sure Kongo could KO brock "if" he had good TD defence. And Alves could of KO'ed GSP if he had good TD defence to. The list of "ifs" go on forever. You have to look at the facts. And by looking at the facts very few guys right now can deal with the problem of Lesnar. Kongo and Cain to me just cant.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I'm not sure why anyone thinks any of the other wrestlers are better than Brock. He's a Division-1 National Champ. There is a huge difference between division-1, division-2 & division-3.
Posted 4 months ago # -
aznstar got it right about carwin. carwin is basically the same as lesnar [minus the **** issue] but carwin has legit ko power, brock hasnt shown it. also even though barnett and fedor are better fighters then brock, brock will employ the same strategy he did to mir which is to lay on his opponent and use his size and strength to control them. brock beat two better fighters than him who are randy and frank mir. i mentioned it on another topic that brock will do the same to fedor. he will smother him and not let him do anything off of his brock. brock let mir have 5 seconds where he wasnt chest on chest and mir immediately went for an armbar, brock went oh shitt and went back to laying on him.
carwin will ko brock, take that to the bank. cain got rocked by kongo who doesnt have great punching power, and cain will be ko'd by carwin maybe even losing a few teeth in the process. i believe on carwin's blog about brock he said joe silva told him the winner of carwin-cain gets the next title shot. hopefully that title shot comes by christmas or new years so i can see brock ktfo'd.
gun in response to PTI, wilbon and tony both hate mma, they despise it and have said on mayn episodes that they do. they claim its barbaric and even compared it to human cockfighting. brocks antics just gave them further reason's to hate it. if you want to hear someone who likes mma/ufc its the guy that does sportscenter in the morning with the blonde chick, he was ecstatic with the ko of bisping, he said it was one of his favorite mma ko's of all time, and he said brock took it to far. homeboy knows his stuff and isnt like most of the other espn people who are uneducated about it.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I just want to clear a few things up, since alot of incoorect statments have been made lately revolving around Brock and Shane.
Shane is not 2 inches taller than Lesnar. They are both 6'3(although according to Sherdog he is 6'4) I go off of the fight between him and Gonzaga where he looked barely taller if at all. Gonzaga is 6'2.
Shane is not bigger or even the same size as Lesnar. Brock has and will allways have to cut 20 some odd pounds to make the limit. Where as Shane "walks around" at 265 and come fight night he always tips the scales around 160.
Shane does have bigger hands
Shane does have crisper boxing and more "KO" power. Although I do believe that if Brock had caught Herring on the chin, instead of the cheek with that big punch he would have put him to sleep. But after the arm punch KO over Gonzaga Shane takes this one.
Shane is not as good a wrestler as brock. Brock is a div I champ shane is a div II
champ.
Lesnar will likely be able to take down Shane. Gozaga did.Heres to hoping Carwin blasts through Cain so we can have all these stats put to the test.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I would like to state I did not measure them, so I went off the heights listed.
2nd Rogan made the statement that Shane wears a 5XL glove which is bigger than Brocks 4XL glove. Once again didn't measure it 1st hand, but that's what Joe said in Shanes fight with Gabe. 3rd that's great that Brock is a D1 champ, but this is MMA and Shane trains with one of the best trainers in all of MMA to go along with that D2 title.
But I do agree that while I like Cain, I will cheer for Shane cause I honestly believe he will dominate Brock who is a one trick pony.Posted 4 months ago # -
I'd like to clear something up here.
It's not about "hating Lesnar", it's about loving the sport more. Lesnar is bad for our sport. Period. His words and actions have proved that.
Also, why exactly do you think it was those 18,000 were booing Lesnar?
Think about it.
It's impossible to embrace someone who is detrimental to something you hold dear. I love this sport, plain and simple, as do millions of others. I find Lesnar's involvement in it unacceptable, and have said so on numerous occasions.Because some of the frenzied, a few of whom I respect in spite of their position on Lesnar, took issue and umbrage with my point of view, I'm leaving off posting about Lesnar unless specifically asked about it, as I was tonight by jazzkok over on a thread, in the interests of forum harmony.
For me the well-being of MMA comes before cheering for some tempermental man-child.
If that's "Lesnar-hating" to some MMA fans, then so be it.
Frank Mir tried and failed to do a service for the sport Saturday night while he was pursuing his own path to the HW title. For that he's got my respect, and based on Lesnar's pre-and post-fight antics, and his insincere apology, my opinion of him remains both confirmed and unchanged.I will however continue to comment on Lesnar only as it relates to his in-cage prospects. It would be hard not to, seeing as how for better or worse he is the UFC HW champ.
bigchris 2328, I certainly hope Carwin is able to defeat Lesnar, as you keep assuring me :)
After reading Carwin's blog excerpt from another thread he struck me as someone who knows how to carry himself as a sportsman and a fighter, which is more than can be said for "the champ". Carwin's wrestling ability is probably about equal to Lesnar's, but Lesnar hasn't really shown much ability or specific skill of any sort in the cage, other than his "Brock smash!" attack, which unfortunately has served him as well as it can.
Personally I think the key to beating Lesnar is skill and technique. If Mir perhaps had a better gameplan, the second fight could have gone the way the first did, but it didn't go down that way. Perhaps if Mir ever gets a "rubber match", he'll learn from his mistake.
I don't see Carwin beating Lesnar at his own game, but he'll certainly have my best wishes in the attempt.Amongst the remaining HW's I don't see a clear choice to relieve Lesnar of his belt. Couture is sadly too old and small, Big Nog has too much mileage on him, Velasquez is also too small, Herring has already been Lesnar-ed, as has Mir. Gonzaga needs a more vicious attitude if he ever gets into the cage with Lesnar, or he'll get crushed, and the returning Mirko lacks in almost every area of MMA needed to be a threat of any consequence to Lesnar.
Outside of the UFC I would say possibly Fedor might have a shot of beating Lesnar, assuming his nearly 4 year long layoff from legitimate competition hasn't diminished his skills too badly. Josh Barnett has the size and the skill to beat Lesnar, but not the strength or determination. If Barnett somehow beats Fedor, and shows some fire and focus and re-dedicates himself to physical training, I like his odds against Lesnar a lot better, although I know its hard to put faith in a man who lost to Mirko THREE TIMES, which I find disgraceful.
I do think of all the HW's out there, Barnett has the best skillset-size ratio to beat Lesnar, but he's got to get his head and heart right, something which for the most part he's been unable to do in his career. I also think fighting in a cage as opposed to a ring would make Barnett much more effective.Barnett has his future in his own hands, and his future can start on August 1, by beating a semi-retired Fedor. Then he can get his lawyers to work with the UFC to get a contract hammered out, and go from there. If he ever fights like he means it, Barnett can be UFC HW champion by this time next year.
All that remains to be seen is if he has the will to do so...Posted 4 months ago # -
I haven't read all the comments but would like to point out that hardcore MMA fans here on this site and others are making a much bigger deal out of Lesnar's antics than casual fans or the MSM. Most casual fans probably were impressed by his dominance in the Octagon, and then got a good laugh out of his post fight tirade and went on with their evening. Eric Shapiro has a great piece that will post on the main site in the morning, and it echoes a lot of my feelings on the issue.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Ya I noticed that to justin. I was at a friends house with a large group watching UFC 100 on a 108 inch projection T.V.(It was amazing) But after the fight everyone just laughed at what lesnar said. Two people even clapped. Mind you these were casual fans and could care less about Lesnar's antics. They all left impressed with the guy during and after the fight. I bet 90% of the bars were like that to.
Posted 4 months ago # -
In relation to Justins and Carls posts i watched UFC 100 with 3 other mates at my house, 2 of them like the UFC but get borred with ground fighting and want to see KO's as they are very uneducated and the other lad has been watching UFC for a year now and is starting to understand the transitions and ground game. All my mates found what Lesnar did ENTERTAINING that doesnt mean its right at all but the UFC is trying to get mainstream and attract new fans such as my mates.
Maybe because i have just turned 20 my views may be different to people who have watched this sport while i was still in nappies lmao. I just feel this after fight stuff has been over exagerated and the fact that Lesnar DOMINATED a world class fighter has been over looked.In relation to Jcohls post i totally agree with you that if Barnett actually dedicates himself to MMA and trains to his full potential he is a very serious threat, Barnett is not a strong heavyweight though in comparision to the Lesnars and Carwins of the division and Lesnars main attribute is his size and strength and i feel until you can take that weapon away from Lesnar he is the favourite in every fight. I do believe Barnett has good submission skills but to get Lesnar down (Very difficult to do) and then be able to get into a dominant position to submit him, will be very difficult (But not impossible).
I relation to some of Gunslingers points, may i just add this isnt a personal attack or anything and i no you are a very knowledgable and great blogger on this website but to say that Lesnar if he faced Barnett he would get destroyed is not a very logical thing to say. I believe there wrestling would neutralise each other as you said Barnett is a quality wrestler , i feel barnett has crisper striking and Lesnar has strength and athleticism over Barentt, it is a very close fight to call not a Barnett DESTRUCTION.
Secondly Cain Velasquez has GREAT finishing power? He hit dennis stojnic 20 times flush, he didnt go down. When the ref stopped the fight Stojnic stood up straight away nodded his head n walked to his corner, against Kongo he had DOMINANT positions for a good 6 - 8 minutes in that fight and even Joe Rogan commented on the fact that Cain needs to work on his power and his finishing abilities. Lesnar would be a favourite against Cain Velasquez and in my opinion would be a challenege but one i see him passing quiet easily. Cain Velasquez weighs 235 lbs roughly Lesnar would come into that fight at 290 lbs roughly enough said.
He may run his mouth and at the end of fights and have been an **** hole but he is very talented and his size, strength and wrestling ability is something that are huge factors when he will fight anyone of these contenders.
Posted 4 months ago # -
just to throw this out there for the debating of D-1, D-2 wrestling. gsp didnt wrestle in high school or college and he is argurably the top wrestler in all of mma. who does carwin train with?
Posted 4 months ago # -
This is certainly off-topic, but to address bigchris2328's comment on GSP's wrestling, I'm going to repeat something I posted on another thread, in that like BJ Penn, Anderson Silva, Fedor [before his semi-retirement]and Miguel Torres, GSP has an almost supernatural aptitude for MMA. If another fighter of lesser God-given ability started training wrestling so late in competative life, relatively speaking, they wouldn't reach the level of proficiency GSP has.
Its not a knock on other fighters, it's just that GSP is that damned good. GSP is in that very select group of "p4p" fighters, so I tend not to compare his astonishing results to anyone else's...Posted 4 months ago # -
yes gsp is truly a gift to the sport....no one has more talent..or just raw skill st no matter what they do like gsp
Posted 4 months ago # -
with my previous comment i mean carwin can learn tips from gsp on his technique so he could get better. no doubt carwin can take down gsp and gsp might not be able to take him down. by them training together carwin can ask how gsp defends takedowns and does them, and have gsp show him in slow motion/speed so carwin can apply it to his game. just like i think mir did when he rolled with maia. thats the advantage of training with the top guys in any aspect of martial arts imo.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Just got home and read Eric's editorial, I agree 100% and it's quite well written I must say. And at any other site a post like mine would result in a reaming of a new one, but as stated on other posts, this site is nothing but class and respect. Anyways, I just wanted to put in a couple extra points:
I just watched the full post fight conference and Lesnar looked dead serious about his appology, whether or not it was asked of by Dana. Look at the man; it's a 290lb beat of a man with his head down and he's nervously ripping up pieces of paper. Just seemed sincere to me.
Lesnar is not bad for MMA. He brings in more fans/buys than any other one fighter out there right now. And that results in Dana being able to give out $100K bonses. And did anyone notice the mainstream sportsmedia coverage of UFC 100, 2/3 of which was dedicated entirely to Brock (look at the ESPN coverage for Sunday and Monday if you don't believe me, it's all that was on during poker)?
I should have waited to see how well Fedor deals with Barnett before putting up the hypothetical matchup (hey, I was a little tipsy and still on my UFC/Vegas high). If Fedor can nullify Barnett's catch wrestling and size, then he's probably way too much of a fighter for Brock. I know it's a different wrestling style, but it's a decent barrometer. If Barnett can handle Fedor on the ground and get past his striking for takedowns, maybe Barnett would be a better man to beat Lesnar (which I still don't see happening). Barnett's really only one of 2 guys I see being physically challenging for Brock, Carwin being the other. But no one else cuts to 265.
Which brings up my last point, and I want to make this abundantly clear. Lesnar is not more skilled in MMA than any of his opponents thus far. He's just a beast. Remember guys, he cuts like 20-25 lbs to make 265. And most of that 285-290 lbs is pure muscle. He's physically emposing, and as Eric made clear, it's reversing everything we've thought about technique vs size. The difference in size of Royce vs the UFC 1-4 guys was much larger though than the difference in size between Brock and Mir. And Mir's arguably the best BJJ for MMA HW there is right now. Yes, I was a WWF Brock fan. But only for the reason that this man was a natural monster. Not a steroid freak like the other big guys, but just naturally huge; and being a former longtime WWF fan you can really tell the difference between a juicer and someone who's natural. Lesnar brought me back into fake wrestling durign his brief career (4 years and $40 million dollars).
The guy's a once in a lifetime type of guy and there's a deep dark recess in my sould that yearns for the freakshow aspect once in a while.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Gee, eldiablo, I would never have guessed that you were a WWF/E Lesnar fan from any of your posts defending the guy.
Good news though, your Brock Lesnar decoder ring and Deathclutch t-shirt are in the mail!
:)Posted 4 months ago # -
Let's get this straight. It will always be the WWF and never the WWE. The switch was about the time I grew up.
And I can't wait to finally get that ring (has it really been 1,500 Lesnar posts so far???). It's been a biatch figuring out what all these cryptic signs are on all my Lesnar Deathclutch shirts.Posted 4 months ago # -
Nice, eldiablo, good stuff
:)Posted 4 months ago #
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