How Do You Determine How A Fighter Is Finished?

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How Do You Determine How A Fighter Is Finished?

(16 posts) (8 voices)

Started 4 months ago by Lex415
Latest reply from Lex415

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Lex415

Heavyweight
Joined: May '09
Posts: 516

I was reading a debate someone was having about fighters being finished a few days ago on the main site and it got me thinking. Now I don't remember the main conversation, but they brought up the Penn vs. St. Pierre II fight.

Im well aware that a KO, TKO or any type of submission is considered finishing a fight, but this person suggested that Penn was NOT finished because his corner threw in the towel. Now that made me think this person was right, because technically Penn himself did not quit, his brother threw in the towel.

My brother insisted that I was wrong because regardless of anything, Penn did not try to go for a round 4, but St. Pierre did not force him to quit nor did he KO him in anyway.

I have a feeling of what people are going to write and I please ask you to be fair. Im not trying to start a BJ was a b--ch, he gave up, GSP owned him, im just asking an honest question. What is considered finishing a fight under those circumstances?

Posted 4 months ago #
ufcmanz

Middleweight
Joined: Sep '09
Posts: 245

This is kind of like the Sherk vs Penn fight, It was the end of the round Sherk could have gotten up but he landed there and said he was done. GSP was raining down elbows and punchs ,Penn had a hard time getting back up went to his corner then quit. Not to much of a difference really Penn was to weak to keep going ,he had taken to much damage. So in my opinion its a Finish "throwing in the towel" is almost the same as a tap out because your submitting the victory to your opponent.

Posted 4 months ago #
NicKageB

Heavyweight
Joined: Sep '09
Posts: 503

yea BJ didnt seem to argue, if he did I miteve sed he wasnt finished

Posted 4 months ago #
bsbiz

mod
Joined: Nov '08
Posts: 486

You could call that situation a verbal submission... He sort of tapped by saying he didn't want to continue. I think that's a TKO.

Posted 4 months ago #
bigmike12

Light Heavyweight
Joined: Oct '09
Posts: 343

Interesting topic. I know its a "TKO" loss for BJ but it should be somethin else... (Submission by quitting or something idk) GSP was just too big and strong and athletic for BJ.

Posted 4 months ago #
Lex415

Heavyweight
Joined: May '09
Posts: 516

Thanks guys, but BJ never quit (technically) his brother did for him. In an interview after the fight, BJ said he was thankful for his brothers decision so maybe in that he was finished?

Posted 4 months ago #
bsbiz

mod
Joined: Nov '08
Posts: 486

Mike, I think that a verbal submission is counted as a TKO. It's not a submission hold and it's definitely not a KO. In MMA, the term TKO is a general catch-all term for "the ref ended the fight."

Posted 4 months ago #
Eldiablo

Heavyweight
Joined: Jan '09
Posts: 555

A verbal tap is the same as a tap, either by punches or a submission move. When you submit, you give up, and you can give up if the punches hurt too much or you think you've broken your face. The term submission literally means to give up, and you genreally give up when faced with extreme pain or danger of a broken bone: punches can get you both.

A TKO is when a fighter can no longer intelligently defend himself and needs to ref to save his a$$.

As far as what constitues a fighter being finished, well, if the fighter does not make it to the end of a 3 or 5 round fight, he is finished, period. There's no way to say BJ wasn't finished, because he didn't finish the fight. If you tap, verbally submit, get (T)KO'd, or your corner throws in the towel, you've been finished.

However, when there is a DQ, there is no finish. Although the fight did not go the whole 3 or 5 (or 2 or whatever), it was not ended due to anyone's dominance.

Posted 4 months ago #
bigmike12

Light Heavyweight
Joined: Oct '09
Posts: 343

bsbiz, thanks i did not know that. either way its counted bj had no chance to beat gsp in the last round. kinda off topic, but does anyone believe hardy or swick can compete with gsp, much less deserve a title shot if they win? Personally i say no but thats just me

Posted 4 months ago #
NicKageB

Heavyweight
Joined: Sep '09
Posts: 503

I really like Swick but I dont think theres a ww in the UFC that has much of a chance vs GSP. Then again I said that about Machida

Posted 4 months ago #
bigmike12

Light Heavyweight
Joined: Oct '09
Posts: 343

I know that the ufc does not want gsp to have a long rest time between his fights. He fought last in july. I personally would like to see winner of hardy vs swick battle the winner of fitch vs alves for the number 1 contender. But this idea would have gsp not fight for some time. Also, im upset that ricardo almeida got injured, i was excited to see him fight at 170. Hope he comes back strong.

Posted 4 months ago #
JENKINS!

Welterweight
Joined: Feb '09
Posts: 37

I too would like to see the winner of swick/hardy face off against the winner of fitch/alves. But you're right Bigmike12, that would be a very long time away from the octagon for the greatness.

If GSP was to fight Swick, I think he would use his jab to "try" and keep Swick at bay. If that didnt work, I think he would take him down and beat him up. Swick has awesome takedown defense but I dont think he could stop GSP's takedowns.

If GSP was to fight Hardy, I think he would take him down and submit him.

If GSP was to fight Fitch again, I think it would be similar to the first fight, except it would be slower and Fitch would pick his shots and definitely try to get the fight to the ground. I think GSP would win by decision though.

Alves is the only WW that I think has a legitimate shot at beating GSP. He would have to REALLY work on his takedown defense. Like I mean he would have to dedicate alot of time to his wrestling. It would be a close fight but I think GSP would come out on top.

Its just really difficult to see GSP losing a fight because he is so athletic and well rounded

Posted 4 months ago #
Lex415

Heavyweight
Joined: May '09
Posts: 516

@bigmike

I don't think Hardy is desrving of a shot at the belt, Swick is. Assuming he wins.

Posted 4 months ago #
JENKINS!

Welterweight
Joined: Feb '09
Posts: 37

Oh and I agree with Lex.
Hardy isnt deserving of a title shot. Wins over Gono, Markham, and Davis, arent enough to get a title shot. Especially in the UFC's WW division.

Posted 4 months ago #
jcohl

Heavyweight
Joined: Jul '09
Posts: 2,116

I determine that a fighter is finished when he signs the contract to face GSP...
;)

Posted 4 months ago #
Lex415

Heavyweight
Joined: May '09
Posts: 516

Haha!

Touche!

Posted 4 months ago #

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