I wonder what are you guys thoughts on Brock. do you think he really good that he is hyped up to be. personally i think he is a little over ratted lucky for him he face couture for title. no disrespect for couture Big Fan.
Brock Lesnar
(11 posts) (6 voices)-
Posted 4 months ago #
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Hes a solid competitor, and no matter how much people think that he has been givin everything easily. He will always be a threat as long as he stays dedicated tothe sport. Like imagine if this guy had been training MMA sice he finished university. Hes not my favorite fighter but hes good and will continue to get better wheather people like him or not.
Posted 4 months ago # -
It's no secret I'm a huge Lesnar fan; been one ever since seeing his tapes from Ohio Valley Wrestling back in 2000. And one thing I know about this guy is if he's committed to something, he will rule it. And it looks like he's committed to MMA. I've seen him lift a 500 lb man onto his shoulders and literally throw him onto his face. I've seen him take repeated, unprotected chair shots to the face. I've seen him manhandle Mir and Herring. I've seen him crush a legend. And all this with less than 2 years experience in the respective spectacle/sport.
And now we're going to finally going to see if he's learning the skills to be a real MMA champ. He just needs to focus on cardio, sub defence and head movement while striking.
IMO, Lesnar's the real deal. There's no one in MMA who can match strength with him (not even Carwin). Sheer physics alone make his fists deadly weapons. Although in the Couture fight he looked gased, I'd say it was more a combination of title-fight jitters and massive amounts of adrenaline wearing off. He showed his cardio in the Herring fight. And he showed he can be careful and cerebral against Couture.
But then again, Mir could catch one of his limbs, snap it in two, and make me eat my words.
Posted 4 months ago # -
unprotected chair shots? come on dude really
Posted 4 months ago # -
I'm probably the wrong man to comment on this post, in light of some of the very unflattering things I've said regarding Lesnar in the past, which I've been called out on by some of the "frenzied", however I'll give it a fair and hopefully objective try in the spirit of the forum.
I tend to see fighters like Lesnar and to a slightly lesser extent Shane Carwin as MMA "works in progress". For the time being they'll advance thru the ranks by using their superior size and strength to secure wins, something I previously and somewhat disrespectfully referred to as "caveman-ing a way to a win".
Definitely a bit of fighter-bashing, but IMO a fairly accurate description of their in-cage performances to date.It also bears mentioning that this isn't just a Lesnar or Carwin issue, or even a HW issue. Oftentimes when a fighter, regardless of weight class, has an overwhelming advantage in one area of the sport, he'll utilize that particular skill or asset the best he can to stay viable in the sport and advance in the ranks until the rest of his skill-set catches up to his primary skill.
Think Cung Le in striking, or any number of Bjj or wrestling champions. Matt Hughes, for example, was arguably the most dominant UFC WW champion to date, relied heavily on his superior wrestling for the majority of his career. He almost single-handedly forced guys like GSP into being better wrestlers, so that he could match him on the mat when necessary and eventually lift his title by being well-rounded and evolutionary.Lesnar is no different. He BARELY squeezes himself down to 265 or 266, steps on and off the scale, and then steps into the cage on fight night at maybe 280 or more. He combined his superior size [50 pounds or so] and strength with a championship-level proficiency in college wrestling to maul his opponent until the ref stops the fight.
Unless he gets caught in a leg lock by a smarter, more skiilled and experienced fighter, that is.Lesnar was fast-tracked to a title shot because of his pro wrestling popularity, this can't be reasonably disputed. Popularity = money in MMA, like in most other sports.
At the time the HW ranks were paper-thin, so Dana White signed someone he thought could be competitive, stimulate interest in the HW division, and maybe increase ticket sales and PPV buy rates, while simultaneously solving his Randy Couture problem, which if you recall became pretty acrimonious on both sides.
He then proceeded to throw Lesnar into a title match after compiling a 2-1 record with an aging, undersized champion that had seriously gotten on his nerves with all of the very public backstage/ front office wrangling over money and contracts, and presto!
New HW champion - Dr DeathClutch.Ultimately I think Lesnar has a good future in the sport if he stays committed, doesn't let his meteoric rise, which was primarily motivated by money and inter-personal politics between an egotistical promoter and an unreasonable champion, go to his head, and continues to evolve and expand his narrow skill set. He needs to develop in almost all areas of MMA save for wrestling and power [his are excellent], particularly in submission defense and taking his time in a fight.
Is he at the Fedor or Josh Barnett level? Absolutely not. Or not yet.
Does he have a world of potential, especially if he gets with the right camp? Absolutely.While I think it will be tough for Frank Mir to beat Lesnar again, as it's almost always hard to beat someone twice in a row, it can be done, just ask Anderson Silva. Depending on how seriously Lesnar prepares and has developed since their last meeting, he should be the heavy favorite to beat Mir due to the physical mismatch.
However if Lesnar's convinced that all he needs to do is show up in the cage sporting a trendy t-shirt and a 40-50 pound weight advanatage, he'll most like get himself into a bad position with Mir and wind up getting submitted again.Even if that happens the future is bright for Brock Lesnar, so his fans can sit back and enjoy the ride, regardless of whether or not he's overrated or fast-tracked or undeserving or any of the other disrespectful things myself and others say about him...
Posted 4 months ago # -
chair shots to the head HAHA you mean like pro wrestling (which is fake).
Posted 4 months ago # -
brock may have gotten on the inside track to the hw championship, but he fought herring who at the time was the number 1 contender; beat herring giving brock the title shot, then beat randy who was the champ. its not like he fought two guys we never heard of and dana gave brock the title. he worked for it, in the randy fight, randy landed some good shots that stopped brock and made him shake it off. is the guy unbeatable? **** no, but he is a freaking monster, and jcohl you did hit the nail on the head... if a fighter is extremely talented in one area, thats usually the area they prefer to use to get wins. look at maia, the guy is sick in jitz and all but 2 wins has been by submission [one by tko due to opponents shoulder popping out and 1 decision] he doesnt try to win fights standing up, he knows if he can get the fight to the ground its a matter of time until he wins.
back to lesnar, the guy uses his wrestling skills to either take the guy down, or wear him down. look at the "loss" to mir, if you watch the fight it shouldve been stopped, mir took at least 20 hammerfists to the head, and one of them hit the back of his head and herb dean stood them up, we have seen numerous other fights stopped with less amounts of ground and pound, mir turned away from the fists and wasnt fighting back, once a fighter does that the fight is supposed to be stopped. I think with a few more years of training brock will be even more dangerous then he is now. he hits hard [ask herring he flew across the ring and had his orbital bone broken from one punch] and once brock can learn to develop one punch ko power I dont see anyone in the ufc beating him. he is very raw, yet very talented, thats a bad combination for opponents.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Lesnar has enough obstacles to overcome with some segments of the MMA fanbase in terms of his MMA resume and credentials, so lets not make it any harder for the guy by claiming that by beating Heath Herring he proved to the world he deserved a HW title shot. I'm sorry, but in the cage beating Herring just isn't that hard to do at the UFC level of competition, regardless of whether or not the UFC had Herring "ranked" as the number one contender at a convenient time or not.
That "ranking" was just window dressing to make the Lesnar championship fast-tracking more palatable to those UFC fans who regard the SPORT more than the entertainment value, and also to not upset the apple cart of every other contending fighter under contract who was wondering WTF?, when it came to a pro wrestler with a 3 fights getting a shot at the venerable Randy Couture.
So lets not use a victory over Herring to justify Lesnar being awarded a title shot ahead of someone like Fabricio Werdum, ok, because logically it doesn't hold up under intelligent scrutiny.
If you think I'm off the mark when it comes to Herring and his UFC performances, just ask Jake O'Brien how hard it is to expose Herring as an overrated, overhyped one-dimensional fighter. Texas Crazy Horse my @$$. The guy couldn't keep a non-contender like O'Brien off of his legs for more than 30 seconds at a time.
How Herring still has a job with the UFC is a mystery to me, although I'm guessing that once a few more in-house HW's develop and some outside talent is brought in, like maybe eventually Josh Barnett or Fedor, Herring will be thankfully plying his trade elsewhere. I also think Gonzaga might surprise some people down the road who've essentially written him off prematurely.
Apologies to the management for the fighter-bashing and short trip off-topic.Back to Brock Lesnar, I'm not saying Lesnar doesn't have a future, which he does, but as the MMA fanbase lets not kid ourselves about Lesnar's path to the title. He never EARNED a title shot, regardless of what the UFC front office and his Wrestlemania fans would like us to believe.
That being understood, we should be praising Lesnar for what he DID EARN, and that was a tough, hard fought victory over Randy Couture. A lesser fighter of Lesnar's size would have lost to Couture, just ask Tim Sylvia, a lesser fighter at Lesnar's age would have lost to Couture, just ask Gabriel Gonzaga, and a lesser wrestler with a trendy t-shirt , a ton of hype, and the front office behind him would have lost to Couture, just ask Tito Ortiz.Brock Lesnar did something that a group of fighters as varied as Sylvia [who'd beaten Arlovski] to Gonzaga [who'd beaten Mirko] to Tito [who's beaten just about everybody, all you need to do is ask him] were unable to do, and thats step into the cage and beat the Natural.
Regardless of whether or not he belonged in that cage, thats where he found himself thanks to the promoter and some very friendly matchmaking, and he made the most of his opportunity. By all accounts Lesnar has embraced the sport, seriously trains, and claims to be working towards expanding his skill set and refining his g-n-p. Time will tell if he's serious about MMA, and more importantly serious about being the HW champion. If he is, and works as hard at MMA as he reportedly did in pro wrestling and college wrestling, where in both he scored championships, then most likely the only HW's out there who could beat him at this time are Josh Barnett and Fedor. Mir has a chance, certainly, but its unlikely lightning will strike twice for him. If Nog beats Couture, which is by no means a certainty, he'll maybe get a shot at Lesnar if he gets past Mir, but I don't like Nog's chances against Lesnar. As much respect as I have for Couture, if he beats Nog and demands a rematch against Lesnar, I think we'd just get a similiar outcome. No 47 year old man can defeat a much younger opponent who outweighs him by 50 pounds of muscle in an MMA cage. It pains me to say it when it comes to the Natural, but it's stupid to deny the truth no matter how much I like the guy.
When Carwin kills Velasquez, he'll start calling Lesnar out if he's smart, but I don't think he can "out-caveman" Lesnar, so he'd most likely catch a beating and a "L" from Dr DeathClutch..
Possibly a fresh version of Fabricio Werdum might return one day to the UFC and make some HW noise, but that seems like a longshot to me. There are also a couple of promising HW prospects working out in Hawaii, but they are most likely 2-3 years away from even showing up on the UFC radar. One good thing for those guys is a lot of them train at the 808 Fight Factory, which reportedly stresses submission fighting as taught by Ronald Jhun. Lesnar has shown in his loss an obvious unfamiliarity with that area of MMA, so who knows whats down the road for him? Time may come when a Hawaiian HW Lesnar's size will come to the mainland, and have a submission skill set taught to him by Jhun, or Rylan Lizardes of Gracie Technics, or even maybe BJ Penn's school over on the Big Island.This is of course all assuming that Lesnar doesn't go ape-$#!t if and when Mir pops him a stiff one in the chops, which I believe might happen after seeing Mir-Nog, and gets himself caught in another submission caused by poor positioning and his over-aggression.
I may be forgetting someone, and if I do I apologize, no disrespect intended. I can't think of another HW out there right now who could put Lesnar down in a cage other than Fedor and Barnett. Maybe in a year or two Bobby Lashley will come calling, and these two can stage some sort of WWE reunion in the Octagon or something...
Posted 4 months ago # -
gunslinger, nightmare: obviously it's fake, but the pain is real. just a little point for drama.
Posted 4 months ago # -
good points jcohl and maybe your right brock's win over herring was window dressing for his short path to the title, but even if that is true, lesnar has beat everyone he has faced. hang on before anyone says different, im talking beat in the physical sense. mir got ran over, herring got whiplash from a punch and randy took a beating. brock showed up and performed in his fights and won, which is what a fighter needs to do. your point about the shortcut for brock wouldve been clearer if say brock had lost to herring and still got a shot against randy for the title. his one weakness he did show was his sub defense which was highlighted in the mir loss, but after that fight brock showed against herring and randy that he was patient and wasnt overly aggressive. maybe some guys that are training in hawaii could come over in a few years and give brock a run, but he is training in subs and sub defense now. it was brocks second fight against one of the top jitz guys in the ufc, of course a sub was going to happen.
as far as possible people who can beat brock, maybe barnett and fedor, but we likely wont see either fight anytime soon, maybe 3 years from now they can fight but in that time brock will have grown as a fighter and had more experience and training making him even more dangerous. lashley has no shot against brock, werdum would only be able to beat brock on the ground and thats a maybe. maybe the reason brock lost to mir was because mir had a kneebar on him and he knew if he didnt tap he was risking a major injury to his knee and he probably wouldnt be the same as an athlete. 95% of guys who have major knee surgeries [ACL, MCL, PCL] are never the same, there arent as explosive or fast , had it been an armbar or RNC I think brock wouldve been able to power out of it, but it didnt happen.
Posted 4 months ago # -
bigchris2328, just to clarify my position on Lesnar and Mir, I in no way shape or form question Lesnar for tapping out. His ground experience was negligible, and as you stated Frank Mir is one of the top submission HW's in MMA. I don't know too many guys who wouldn't be tapping if they found themselves on the wrong end of a Mir kneebar.
While I have my problems with the hype surrounding Lesnar, and Dana White's handling and positioning of Lesnar, I don't fault the guy for tapping out rather than sustaining what could have been a career-threatening knee injury.
The man "lived to foght another day", as the old saying goes, and picked up the UFC HW title along the way.
Moving on, a question for the collective:
Does anyone know for certain who Brock Lesnar trains in the submission game with these days?
Just curious...Posted 4 months ago #
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